BOB'S TIPS ON GOOD CYBER WRITTING: OPEN POSTS AND LOGICAL MOVEMENTS

KISS method. Keep it simple stupid. The reason, guys need to cum. I'm no reader or writer. I've been invited to groups because I KISS. I use the 5th grade reading and writing level purposely. I read some of this article here but it was so long I couldn't stick with it. I will return though and finish it. It is excellent. At 6:00 a.m. guys are horny and need to cum. if a story ain't KISS they just go to the end so they can cum. Death matches. People react in disgust to mine then read them. I use the ignore button a lot on here. Sometimes I take 30 days off and come back. No problemo. I find my most popular characters are either deadly or total slaves. The two extremes.

I agree with AgentJames, different strokes for different folks. I prefer more complex posts in spite of limits on my irl time, but this might not suit all, and that's fine. The conversation here was not intended to be on stylistic preferences, but rather the benefits of writing open posts and realistic posts. Even so, if someone has a following that enjoys closed posts and super movements, then happy days, but this would not be my style.

Newspapers are the 5th grade reading level. So are there replacements. Need I say more? Yada yada yada yackity schmackity.

Thank you for your input. All I can say is don't feed the troll 🧌

Mister, you're an asshole.

Short Version:

This thread:
Open versus Closed

You add:
short versus long

Summary:
You are perfect Example for a toxic Troll

Right back at you.

Different strokes for different folks dude. :) Me, I get off more on a long, well written story than a short one. Multiple times. But hey, I definitely enjoy the quick and to the point stories from time to time.

We are here to have fun, and there are many styles and ways to do that. But however we do that, I generally hold that we should respect each other on the way.

I have to KISS I don't have time. My life clock is ticking. Remember Logan's Run? I'm blinking.

So just to summarize all of the thoughts expressed so far:
1. Posts should be open, expressed as a try or an attempt, do not express the outcome of the attack unless there is nearly zero possibility that your opponent can avoid the attack.
2. Never express the reactions of your opponent or control their body movements
3. Take unto account body positional details to make your attacks realistic
4. Express your pain, emotions, and energy levels
5. Take into account how tired you are at that point in the match and how many injuries you have incurred and how that would impact on your offensive capabilities
6. Give good details in your attacks, and good details in how you avoid attacks, or how the attacks impacted on you.

Cyberfight Etiquette Rules - 2022 Revision

Here is the revision to the old CYBERFIGHT DOS DONTS 2014 document. This includes some updates and includes the open / closed posts that you talk about here Bob. Thank you for motivating me to finish this.

This document on Cyberfight Etiquette Rules written by The Author is without a doubt the very best and most comprehensive cyber fighting document I've ever read. It is so well written that it is a real joy to read, and at each turn of the page I can't wait to read more. Whether you have been cyber fighting for 10 years or 1 day, there is something to learn from this guide. Thank you so much for making the updated guide accessible here.

Well summarized Bobxx! Makes for an exciting encounter.

FYI ... these guidelines spice up not only in ring action, but also out of ring action. Whenever I'm involved in a battle taking place against an enemy agent or soldier, whether it involves guns, knives, hand to hand or a mix of all of the above, I always do my best to follow these guidelines.

Thanks James, I agree completely, it works for any manner of fights outside the ring, like street brawls....for example:
https://mars.chatfighters.com/story/64635

These have all been great points. Thank you to everyone who has contributed.

Awesome topic, great details and points made, and some fantastic replies on top! Glad to see folks taking the time to really put some consideration to how this kind of roleplay works.

I've always viewed it similar to professional wrestling: the goal is to put on a good show, while appearing like you're putting on a good fight. Basically: "Cooperative Competition."

Cheers BobXX, for making the post and sharing your experience—and everyone who has commented offering additional thoughts!

Thanks Bernard, your comments are much appreciated!

Good points made. It takes two for a good match to work. It's frustrating when your opponent consistently replies with closed posts to your open posts. Of course in a match you both make errors and write something you didn't intend. I usually try to make up for it in my next move or response. Matches are so much better where you give your opponent an opportunity for a counter move. In addition if my opponent hurts me...I feel it...and my response will reflect the impact of the hold. Recovery is a big part of a match.

Thanks Scotty, and yes, if my opponent hurts me, i usually just try to move away on my next turn, and don't try to counter attack, just licking my wounds.....lol

So much is now written about the importance of writing open posts that it never ceases to amaze me at the number of closed posts that still get written. A closed post, by definition, is one where you launch your attack, and also determine the outcome of the attack, and also where you control the response of your opponent, like dictating their body movements. An open post always describes an attack as an attempt, e.g. I try to send a jab, or I aimed a jab at your right eye, or I sent a jab towards your right eye……the outcome of the attack is open, and will be determined by your opponent.

Here is an example from a cyber:
My opening post:…..I move towards you, raising my guard, and send a probing jab towards your face and then circle right. (this is open because the outcome of the jab is unknown). An example of a closed post would have been: I sent a probing jab that smashed into your nose!
My opponents response: I move my head back fast and avoid the blow. I move back as you circle me to the right of my body. I carefully reach out and move fast towards you. I lift my arm, my hand grasping the back of your neck. I pull down hard I bring you down just enough to slam my left knee up hard into your upper abs - Bam! Bam! Bam! I then sweep my right foot out to kick you over and let go of you.

So let’s dissect the response. His avoidance of the strike by moving his head back is totally legit and makes sense. He moves back then, as I circle to my right. Although I don’t explicitly state that I have retracted my left arm and reformed my guard, it would be pretty stupid of me to leave my left arm stretched out, or to drop my guard. I have more than enough time to do this, it takes a half second to flick out and retract a jab. He then launches his attack, reaching out to place his hand on my neck. First, which arm is he using, left or right? How did he get his arm around my guard to place his hand on my neck? To do this, he has to open his guard, and reach around my guard, placing me inside his guard. At this point, I’m going to try to hurt him really badly by sending a right cross to his right eye socket! But I can’t do this because he wrote a closed post, where by he basically declared this was a successful move. Then he writes another closed post, where he pulls me down to slam a left knee into my upper abs. BAM! BAM! BAM! (what does BAM x3 mean? Was it three strikes?). He ends his post with something that was basically a closed post, but could be interpreted as an open post, but lacks sufficient detail….sweeping his leg out to kick me over…what was his target? How do I respond, other than say I got kneed three times in the abs, and then had my leg swept out from under me? My participation in this cyber is not needed.
There.

I've been thinking about this for a couple days and wanted to share my opinion. First, let me link to these:

CYBERFIGHT DOS DONTS AND BASIC ETIQUETTE - 2014
Cyberfighting - Basic Etiquette (Updated September 2021 by me)

These rules were created back in 2014 as far as I can tell, and come from over a decade of people doing cyber fighting. They include what you are talking about, though the terminology of "Open" and "Closed" are not used. I like the terms Open and Closed and will be using them from now, but previously I used "Attempting" and "Dictation" for exactly the same meaning you use here. Anyhow, on to what I want to talk about.

You are correct that people should be using Open post when taking their turns. Erik's breakdown is very on point. My personal views on the matter is to only use Closed actions under two conditions.

1. One is that I am in a position where I do not view the action as being stoppable.
2. Specifically reacting to something that was set up such as a Counter.

If have somebody in a Collar & Elbow, then deliver a knee to the gut is a action I feel very comfortable writing as a closed action. If I feel the action I am considering isn't very likely, I leave it open for them to decide.

The only other time I will use a close action is if a person is specifically triggering a counter I have set up. If I state in my turn that I am preparing to counter a grapple, and my opponent tries to grapple me, then I WILL use a closed action to describe exactly how I counter their move, often by doing a Power Move. The catch here is that I am basically asking permission to do that to them, because I make very clear what I am trying to counter. If they choose to trigger... or if they simply are not reading what I am writing, then I feel completely justified with taking the closed action.

Now I want to talk about Move Cancelling.

If a person is using closed actions on you, your options are either to go along with it, or specifically cancel their move. This should done lightly. I do if my opponent is making closed actions against me that I feel I should be able to react to. As I'm sure we all know, sometimes a person will attempt to dictate actions that are unfair. A finisher on round 2, actions that cripple or disable a person, and in some cases, even attack that would kill. If a person dictating such actions, your only are to Move Cancel.

If you Move Cancel, you should justify the action. As a part of the counters I listed above, I will move cancel if somebody trigger the counter and then explain why in my entry by pointed out the move was countered. "You come rushing at me with your Spear, but since I'm braced and ready to counter, when you collide with me I cushion the blow with my hands. I then wrap a arm around your neck, use that momentum you generated, and counter with a DDT."

I might take it a step further than most, but in my match, I'm tracking the stamina, endurance, health, and body hits of my character. I also track where I've been hitting my opponents. I then use that as a means to justify the actions I take, and often describe things like heavy breathing, and sweating to give indication as to the status of my character. The important part though, is that you should consider all actions you take to have a toll, contributing to your characters overall exhaustion. It makes sense that when a character is fresh, they can absorb some hits, be quick to reverse, and generally fight back; but as the match goes on, they should tire out and reflect their fatigue.

TL:DR

• Open Post are good.
  • Add variety to the match, generally nicer.
• Closed Posts need justification.
  • Limits actions, often abused.
• Move Cancelling is a remedy to Closed Posts.
  • Need justification.
• Characters should grow weaker as they fight.
  • It's more difficult to justify Closed Posts and Move Cancelling.

Good points. As always it takes a good opponent to work with your moves. Many open moves are setups on my part but in some matches my partner takes advantage of the open move to get an advantage. For example if i don'f follow through on a clothesline...my opponent will almost always counter before I can do a follow through. I see in your collar and elbow example you follow through with a knee to the gut. Typically I will just perform the collar and elbow and my partner will counter. It takes communication and desire for a good match and a trade off between the fighters and sometimes a closed action is necessary.

Mmm yeah but you are using the example of striking. Which is easy.

Once you start getting into grappling it’s harder to post open, because more of both your body’s are affected. I’m thinking of something like a straight armbar from guard in BJJ which is really difficult to write in a non-closed way apart from inserting try in a lot of places

I mean if someone is going to show me a really cool way to post that I’m all ears 👂

As a person who uses a lot of technical moves in my matches, I found that giving a description followed by a picture helps to clear up confusion. I also use a lot of open posts when applying them.

I do agree that when grappling, there are things you more easily write with closes posts and justify it. If I have somebody trapped in Full Nelson, and on their turn they didn't break free, I can then justify a closed posts of swinging them around like a rag doll. Likewise if a I am setting a person up for a Power Bomb, you can simply make it clear you are setting it up, then see if they escape on their turn. If they don't BOMB.

Conditional logic is useful too. Using the powerbomb as an example, you could easily write say... "I pull your head in-between my thighs, grip your abdomen, and try to lift you up over my shoulders. If you fail to get free, I then slam you in to the canvas with a Power Bomb."

Generally though, you should give them a chance in your post to get free or counter the move, that leaves it open and doesn't just force them to eat whatever you are throwing.

You know you inspired me with that text. I can often get the shot at a standing head scissors. I’m going to find some little pixie 🧚‍♀️ girl to go powerbomb now 😂

yeh, Nora go find someone smaller to take down... :)

(ps great discussion above btw - open vs closed posts, right on, the issue around close ground grappling more complex; I frequently use 'try to' 'attempt' 'looking to twist her left arm enough to gain control' . A pic library is a good tip; I also like describing emotions, mental state, pressures, internalised thoughts, fears, anger and hopes, plus detail about touch, feeling the opponent's power via their bicep pumped up against one's neck, hand gripping a solid, firm thigh, powering down on someone, bending their arm over my thigh against theor elbow joint etc)

All great points Tara.....I think even in ground grappling it is important to do things in stages.......at least two or three, to give an opportunity to block the move or reverse it....and agree that nothing makes a cyber more enjoyable than to describe emotions and feelings and touch....and when necessary pain

I aggree completely, for it to be fair and fun, your opponenet needs to have the opportunity to escape, some might take it and others won't, but those are the breaks.....as irl, there is no guarantee of a successful move.

I agree that wrestling is harder to describe than striking, but I still think you have to take a wrestling move in at more than one piece......allowing a counter movement if your opponent wishes (or can think) to do so.......for example, you take hold of there wrist........and try to pull their arm between your legs..........so that you just don't snap the hold on all at once.....

This is a great post about a critical part of cyber fighting. I tried to explain cyber to a writing group I belong to - a game where two writers competitively write a fight 1) with no determined outcome when you start 2) with the intent to dominate 3) and have the fewest stated rules possible. They stared at me like I was doing drugs.

I wanted to add some thoughts to you thoughts @BobXX, amplifying the problem a little and showing a couple solutions I came up with. Over all the years of doing cyber with people, I have yet to find a holy apostolic one-true-way of doing cyber. Part of the problem lies in the nature of the game - it's an attempt at verbal domination of your opponent. At some point in the exchange of verbal domination, I will be telling you what's happening. That "telling" will be closed and deterministic. (Or some attempts will be done with closed statements.)

I play a 6'5", 300 pound huge muscled Titan with power and many years of experience. There will be things I can and can't do. In your example, a man coming to hit me with three hits (BAM BAM BAM) in the abs is something I can completely flex and ignore. 1) I have to see it coming 2) I can't be in an exhausted state or already injured in that area 3) I am required to explain WHY his three hits don't have the effect he was hoping for 4) when all the first three ideas are filled, the best match requires me to leave some idea that this "armor" of mine isn't permanent. With this idea, I get around any closed statement of hitting me in the abs.

(NOTE: there's some damage you can not claim muscle armor. Kick in the balls, eye poke, head strikes, or just repeated hits to one zone. If you play the armor effect to deep, the cyber will get dull. To cover that, if you kick me in the balls, I GO DOWN. You get a free round, of course the crowd will boo and throw garbage at you, but that's life in the arena.)

Can't do - yes there's a ton of things I can't and shouldn't do. High flying moves for starters. I am 300 pounds and this big ass isn't moving as fast and you. Maybe in short bursts, but if I am playing this out well, I pay with some exhaustion. I will eventually need to rest and catch my breath. Jumping off ropes and missing or hitting my target has a higher weight to damage ratio - I will fuck myself up dropping from a high place.

And there's some things I can't do because of simple physics and reality. I can't bearhug you and poke you in the eye - 2 hands can do only so many things.

What I'm getting to is your character has to have some way of challenging your opponent's closed statements, explaining you have a viable dodge/parry/counter to their move, or explaining you have a nature about you that neutralizes that attack. Short guys can duck. Muscle tanks can take some kinds of damage and shrug.

You really can't make closed statements about some things - like your opponent's volition - their will to act. For example, You don't get to say after You hit me in the abs, I cry like a bitch and complain to the ref and lay on the mats unable to breathe. (No, I decide my reactions.) You don't get to tell me "the pain blocks out your ability to think" and you get to do anything you want. You don't get to tell me my emotional reaction to anything. Like BobXX says - that would be a match where you don't need me. You got this on your own.

I will make some sensory closed statements. I have you in that bearhug, for example. We've been here for a couple moves in fact. In this position, I can tell you what you feel as you are trapped against my sweat slick muscled body. I can tell you that you feel my hot breath on your neck. I can tell you that you hear my breathy deep voice in your ear. I can tell you these things in a very closed manner ONLY because the fact that you're stuck in the bearhug is already agreed without debate - so there's some obvious things happening here. I don't get to tell you that you like it. I don;'t get to tell you this is arousing. I don't get to tell you this reminds you of your old gym coach. That would be violating your internal volition.

In summary the only thing you can control in a match is YOUR own moves. You can challenge closed statements made by your opponent, and there's some times you get to use them - SPARINGLY! (Examples abound)

Good cyber fighting I think requires two players adult enough to hear your opponent call full stop and ask why you're making closed statements. You can also stop the action and ask for that same clarity.

Cyber is wild and open-ended and I think that's why I love reading and writing it. You would think that after reading over 30,000 cybers over the years, I'd get bored with it. Nope.

As usual, Erik's years (lifetime?) of experience in this shines through. Please see my post above about my thoughts with this. I am generally in complete agreement with Erik here. Thank you for sharing your view both Erik and Bob.

These are all excellent points Eric....I aggree that it is especially important to play the person with the stats that they have been given, for realism and to make an exciting cyber.....

Thank you, Erik and Bob. When I started cybering, I was guilty of almost all these "don'ts". I fell in writing (way back on Trillian) with a guy who kept correcting me. It really pissed me off until I realized the matches were much more rewarding when I paid attention to his critiques. I won't say I don't still occasionally superman or predict an opponent's reaction in a fast-paced match that gets me worked up LOL.

To playing your stats, that took me longer to wrap my head around. Tobias has nearly 240 pounds packed on a six-foot frame. He's strong and can take a number of hard impacts, but he's too bulky to be particularly fast. I tend to opponents close to his size, but a smaller guy can often out-maneuver me.

Great advice!

Thanks Erica!