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I have to say this is great

Add a "Fem vs Fem ONLY" world. Dare you ;)

This! Please this!

Want this so much!!!!

This looks great! But if I may offer one suggestion and put in the greeting message that a person can enter the other room if they want to? The way the greeting message is shown it looks like you can only choose one. So a note dedicated to that can solve someone's issues and avoid unnecessary questions in chat rooms and forums if they can enter multiple rooms.

I'm not sure where this is going, and I feel like we don't have enough info to even comment on whether this is good or bad... Guess we'll have to wait and see?

Though atm I feel like maybe a more granular and soft approach would've been better, this feels like it leaves a lot of people kinda outside. Like what if someone likes all kinds of fights?

So, we now have Venus for those who like M\F and F\F. Mars for those who like M\M.

And where should those who like M\F and M\M go? Pluto? Or those who prefer ONLY F\F?

Maybe some kind of filtering options would've worked better?

But again... not enough info about where this is going.

Again, I'm not actually arguing with the change or saying it's inherently bad, or that it is unnecessary. And personally I stand to benefit from it as someone who's mostly into mixed gender and occasional F\F. So Venus concept is perfect for me. But I see how this separation can bring many problems, and worry how it may hurt the community. And not sure why this approach was chosen specifically, and not something else.

Maybe a more detailed explanation about the direction and reasoning behind it would go a long way to calming the people down?

If this is going to be permanent, feel like there should be separate rooms for female vs female AND male vs female .. instead of lumping them together. Also maybe a fourth option for those of us who just want to chat with men and women. Not sure what planet names we'd assign them .. but I'd avoid Uranus. ;)

I just want to square off with blonde in the first picture. ;)

Yeah, the picture is great :D

I think the changes suck and am willing to bet it's the same few woman haters that brought about this change
They throw a hissy fit every time sa woman interacts with someone. But it's all good when they do it. Shame on you for bowing to them

You lost your bet. Both sides complain about each other, and female chars slightly more. (and keep in mind, we all operate fantasy chars, the real gender does not matter)

Say what you like , I'm not buying it one bit
I've seen how they act first hand and did anyone bother to poll to see what you he majority wanted. Nope. Just cave into the few uaters

Some people will never be satisfied. And it goes both ways

I think it is great. It might actually make going into the Lobby worthwhile again not having to scroll through 200 names at peak periods, half of whom might have an interest in me, and me in them.

Just FYI, ideally you don't have to scroll the lobby to find a match at all. You can go into the Characters page, tick "Chatting now" checkbox, and select what kind of tags and gender and all you want. For example if I want a mixed match I will check "Female \ Male" tag and "Male" gender and it will show me all male characters who are into mixed matches and are online in chat right now.

So 2 minutes snap judgement, I don't like this change.

Lots of the lobby chatters I liked to talk to are mixed or female only, and so they are in venus and I am in mars, so I'm going to now miss out on some idle lobby chat I used to be able to have with people I like but who have no interest in actually having a match with me.

Unless, of course, I join venus just to chat on occasion even though I have very little interest in mixed/female matches, but if people are going to be joining these rooms for reasons outside of their stated purpose of making it easier to find the proper match ups, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of splitting the rooms in the first place?

You are right if this website would be called ChatChatters.com.
But the goal is to bring cyber fighters together. They are plenty of rooms and federations (or create your own) for idle chit-chat.
The #mars #venus should help you to find an opponent who matches your likings. These rooms should bring you or keep you in your cyber fight mood - which the old lobby failed to do.
I understand the general need of people who like to communicate about random events, and there are alternatives out there for external platforms or dedicated rooms But ChatFighters.com never wanted to be a spot for tea parties - which it had become.

If you like male vs male and female vs females/mixed, you can also create two characters and join both. By doing so you can appreciate your opponent more, and adjust your character to perfectly fit the role you want to play.

"You are right if this website would be called ChatChatters.com. "

I feel like this is a ridiculous thing to say. Do you really think every moment of everyone's time on this site should be dedicated to finding a fight, or actively participating in a fight? I admit I haven't used every chat medium in the world, but all the ones I have used all had some central general chat channel where people can shoot the shit about anything, so implying you don't want any sort of general chat on a chat site just seems ludicrous to me.

I'll even admit, at the end of the day, I'm not here looking for friends. I'm here to roleplay matches. I'm looking for, and I provide, a fairly specific experience in roleplays. My character is not a 180 lb model, nor do I want to be one, and since I don't have universal appeal, it can take me some time to find a match. Even though my goal here is not to make friends and chat, it’s still nice to have that as something to do while I wait for a match.

One of the responses I've been seeing a -ton- is exactly what you say, I can make my own room and federation if I want a general chat, and that's a poor response because it's the kind of thing that can just as easily go the other way. People who are exclusively MvM or exclusively FvF could have done the same thing, and in fact, they did! There are tons of male only federations, tons of female only federations, and tons of mixed federations. Why was there a need to also split the main lobby when these people in theory already had places they could go to fit their exclusivity desires? Do federations not work?

Another clear problem, and this is coming from someone who has very little interest in women, is that this change is very male biased. Only men who are exclusively MvM and men who are exclusively MvF benefit from this change (with MvM exclusive benefiting the most. I just want to point out... I am in the group benefiting the most from this change, and I still don't like it.). Women, particularly the ones who are FvF exclusive, are -still- lumped in with the MvF men, and one of the most common complaints I personally see on this site is that FvF women are constantly bombarded by men trying to get them to have a match with them, which this change fails to address, and it's something I see come up almost every day.

I think a big problem with this change is just... why? And why like -this-? What problem is this solving that wasn't already being taken care of by the systems on the site such as federations? And why does it not go the extra step to be fair for everyone and at least make three splits, MvM, FvF, and MvF? I don't think the FvF or MvF people are going to complain that their room has less people than the other rooms. And why get rid of the lobby, also? Would it be so bad to have the lobby everyone is thrown in by default (which they can feel free to leave) on top of having MvM, FvF, and MvF rooms?

It just feels very heavy handed and weird, to me.

This reminds me of the time you suggested, with a straight face, we eliminate all dick pics just so your lady friends would feel more welcome. We noticed Herb. We need a mens space. With that statement you proved it. Don't act confused.

lol, I suggested no such thing. I said I don't like when people have dick pics as their main profile picture, I don't give a crap if it's on their actual profile. There's a big difference between what I said, and what you think I said.

Exactly. Also some women,it isn't just "feeling welcome" but those images can cause trauma based flashbacks for them

https://mars.chatfighters.com/forums/Suggestion_Hide_characters_in_the_lobby#comment192554

https://mars.chatfighters.com/forums/Suggestion_Hide_characters_in_the_lobby#comment192744

Is that really why you stopped liking me, because you mis-read some comments I made? That's a shame, I thought we were buddies. :-(

Stunning wow.

No. My opinion was formed by statements you made in chat where you stated you thought we should "get rid of all dick pics" and I had to clarify your meaning. I had no idea it was your actual crusade as sited in the links you provided.

Hint, if you're traumatized by dick pics, DON'T come to a sex fight web site for gay men where dick is featured frequently. Easy fix. IF you are traumatized I'm sorry. Do we have to rearrange the furniture for every triggered viewer? At some point the customer/viewer has to take some responsibility for their part in this exchange. You are working to nullify the cyber fight exchange going on here in favor of banal chit chat and saying "hi" every 10 seconds. Once again you just proved why we need a separate room.

And while we're here, I am a rape survivor and was told by the police I should learn how to win my own fights. Poor little faggot. Don't even warm up a lecture about those poor rape survivors. It sucks. Every day. I know. Because of this I have to take steps not to repeat previous mistakes and protect myself from pain and obvious triggering input. Don't suggest for a second that if I had tits, everyone else would be required to do that job for me.

In defense of Tech and Admin, I have been occupied elsewhere during the mechanics of this change and I had to be told by a friend that these changes happened with as much warning as you had. These changes were engaged without the help or input of my intense opinions.

Dude... are you okay?

Who are you even responding to? Did you even read the posts I linked? If so, I am completely baffled how you interpret them as a "crusade" to get rid of all dick pics. I also never mentioned rape at all, or that I am traumatized by seeing a dick. I just think they're kinda icky and don't like them. That's it. It's not even a big deal to me, just a mild complaint. Never even asked for them all to be removed, or for -any- of them to be removed, for that matter, all of which is clearly shown in those links. I also would never ask for that in the chat, if that was my belief, I would have no problem saying that was my belief.

I apologize, if you have some sort of mental disorder I am unaware of, I did not mean to antagonize you, and perhaps it's best you just not discuss things with me if you're going to be delusional and angry about it.

If you really want to know if I'm ok, DM me. I'm not answering that question for your public white knight theater.

I read your posts, but I'm talking about what you said in chat in public. The exact words, "We should get rid of all dick pics." You can play baffled all you want. You said it and I had to correct you.

I agree - You did not mention rape, but the poster right after your statement and links went straight there -

"Lara Lockwood
2 hours ago

(In reply to this)

Exactly. Also some women,it isn't just "feeling welcome" but those images can cause trauma based flashbacks for them "

Of course, they should take personal steps to not be in places that trigger them - and maybe they can speak for themselves.

And HOLY SHIT Herb, you would NEVER talk to one of your Lady friends like that, referring to the scar tissue of rape as "some mental disorder."

I applaud this change! I peek into the current lobby to meet new M/M characters (either new to the site or new to me), but I have had no interest in hanging out with people with whom I have no common interests. That's not meant to be a criticism of them but we like what we like, and as the demographics of the site have shifted over time, I do want to see how this pans out or gets adjusted.

I think this is a great idea. My opinions here are not a secret. I would like a male dedicated space. The str8 world has the rest of the planet to play in - if you like co-ed discussion, go to Venus and say Hi.

I agree. I think there should be a space for all of the different interests, but I like having a dedicated safe space for men to play.

But there are already safe spaces in here to play in. They're called federations and rooms. They're already tailored to individual tastes and they keep expanding. How does splitting the main room up fulfill your need for that safe space? Was there something about the old lobby that made you feel unsafe?

Good idea in theory. For those men and women who like to play with everyone, it's a bit annoying now to sit in two rooms to try to say hi to everyone that we've favorited. Also, weren't the other rooms all about hanging with people with more similar interests than the general population? What problem(s) is this supposed to be solving, anyway?

I feel like the feds solved any of the problems of looking for specific matches. Personally not a fan of the chatrooms being split up and it being harder to talk to everyone. And while yes, like you said earlier its not a sight for just chatting, I like chatting with people that have the same general cyber fighting love that I have, even if we dont mesh for a match?

I could be in the minority though and regardless of the decision, Imma still be a member of this amazing community/website. Just dont really get the change if Im gonna be honest.

I think this is a good compromise. Are there people who like everyone together, sure; the inverse is also true.

There has been greater emphasis in recent years on inclusion. Inclusion is a good thing; I want everyone to find their group. With that said, wrestling is a pretty broad kink with more niche interests contained within it. Sometimes we are want to be with folks who are share our specific interests. I'm going to simplify this into gay and lesbian metaphor (despite the fact that we're working hard on including a lot of other folks these days) because it'll be shorter.

If you've ever spent any time in a gay or lesbian bar (and you should before they go out of business), I ask if you've ever noticed the shift in energy that occurs when a guy walks into a lesbian bar or a woman walks into a gay bar. People change their behavior, because the space changes. There is a shared and safe space created when a group of oppressed people come together, and it is often one of the few opportunities people feel where they can be completely themselves in a group of people that is just like them.

The encroachment of potentially heterosexual energy makes some people feel vulnerable, and the whole reason that they are there is because they want a break from that feeling of vulnerability and oppression. There is nothing wrong with queer people wanting a queer space.

I can think of a night a few years ago where friends and I walked down the street to a (now sadly closed) lesbian bar, because we wanted to drink cheap and watch the jello wrestling. The bouncer stopped a couple of us at the door and told us that it was ladies night (at least they weren't having any wrestling that night). Not long after that, the same group decided they wanted to go to leather night at the bear bar - they told another couple from our group that it was a men's night. In neither situation did we argue; we rolled with it and still had a great time elsewhere. This courtesy of safe-space exclusion should not be extended to racists or transphobes; that will always be wrong. This was specifically to bar heterosexual energy from queer spaces.

There should be a place at the table for everyone, but that doesn't mean that we can't have smaller, safe spaces. We were welcome at the lesbian bar, but not on ladies night. We went back another night, because it allowed those women to have a safe space to be themselves without dealing with the male gaze (even if was a rather bright-eyed gaze). Sometimes people (especially people from smaller, less-tolerant places) need the acceptance that comes from spending time with people who are like them, because they don't get to do it on any other occasion.

The change was not necessary and just brings confusion. I wish you did not do this. I like MvsM and MvsF and can now only be in one room vs the other.

I doubt some people understand what The Ref is trying to do here, and they just miss the point. First of all, I would like to state that I am taking this change in a very neutral way, but I can certainly understand where Ref is coming from.

The original purpose of the previous "Lobby" was for people to be able to find and communicate with other people meeting their own interests. I think this change is more beneficial because of the fact that a significant portion of the men on the site wants to engage in cyber fights with men and a substantial portion of women wants to roleplay with women (And nobody can deny that this situation also greatly affects the interaction of these people with people of the opposite sex, even though there are some exceptions). From this point of view, I think it's a good idea to divide the "Lobby" into "Mars" and "Venus".

I don't see any problem in terms of those who want to get into cyber fights/roleplays with people of both genders. People can be in both the "Mars" room and the "Venus" room if they want. It may even be beneficial for these people to search for someone in a more systematic way (Maybe they feel like they want to engage a scene with a (wo)man at that particular time, ect...). It is just a matter of time to adapt this system. I don't see any problem with this aspect.

A minority group (which I am "kind" of included, one might say) may enjoy talking to people of both sexes while wanting to engage in fights with only one sex. For some people in this group, it may be said that the new change is a little sad: because the previous "Lobby" also had the function of creating a chat environment. But I think this kind of annoyance can also be dismissed by creating another "room", just like the "barrom", where only those who want to chat in general terms can enter. Another possibility, is of course, creating a federation for this purpose (Though, I cannot argue with the argument that this wouldn't be as functional).

One suggestion (rather than criticism) about this change is that it would be more appropriate to have 3 rooms rather than 2 rooms. If a distinction is going to be made like this between "MvM (Mars)" and "MvF and FvF (Venus)", I think it might be better to go straight to "MvM", "MvF", and "FvF" room (adding a third planet perhaps). In this way, a more comfortable and convenient opportunity can also be created for women who only wants to interact with women, just as it is done for men.

But I don't think it's right to directly criticize The Ref and his team, who have spent so much time and effort on this site right after a modification has been made. At the very least, it is necessary to leave some things to time on how the new changes will manifest themselves. The Ref, as always, will step in if this situation produces ineffective or unsatisfactory results. Please take this into consideration before making a comment.

I think the issue is that whoever was requesting the change - however many they were - never expressed it publicly. For all we know, 5 users, or perhaps only 1 user, was making the request and the creative team responds by overhauling the entire site.

If the idea was to protect users from unwanted harassment, perhaps there were other ways to go about it without *segregating the population of users into two distinct camps upon entering the chat.* For instance, programming a tag prohibiting direct dm's so that if someone adds it to their profile, no one can dm them unless they dm that person first.

Speaking for myself, though from the comments I think what I'm about to say is shared by some, it's the segregation of users/characters that causes the unease, given the history with population segregation around the world and throughout history.

I frankly neither examined nor followed the forum discussion on which requests were received on this subject about dividing the lobby. So, it wouldn't be my place to make a comment on this aspect :).

I believe bringing a system where not being able to send a message to a person who does not have the mentioned tag would be more restrictive than this modification. I don't have "Male/Female" tag, yet I have female friends on here, and even roleplaying with one actively. There are also other guys here, who are interested in fighting against only females, but grouping up with other males on the site to create a "male tag team" in a roleplay, for instance, even though they don't have "Male/Male" tag (These are just two scenarios that came up to my mind). So using tags as restrictive methods, is not the best way in my opinion. This new modification, still, lets you to contact with other people despite you do not have the mentioned tags (Though, I still am not sure what "removing and restricting characters based on planetary tags" means; so if this is going to prevent us from contacting with the sex that we don't have the tag after the transition period, it doesn't sound very free :))

And I am not sure what I should say about the segregation part. Personally, I didn't feel that way. At the very end, this change is happening in order to assist people to find the others that may suit their tastes. Of course, it is meant to "categorize" the characters; but not in a way to "marginalize" some groups (At least, that's how I receive this change from my perspective).

But as I said, probably creating a room where all members can join regardless of their sex (and tags) sounds like a good idea {Just like the barroom}. I think with this way, both the people who likes to talk with everyone can meet in the same place, and the people who just want to search for others in an easier way without chatting can be satisfied.

Just a suggestion (Everyone is encouraged to say what they think about this): Maybe there should be 4 planets: One is for MvM + One for MvF + One for FvF + One for a Common Place (Just like the old lobby, but the ones who are interested in chatting or reading the messages of the conversation happening may join if they want)

Did you guys know in chat you can go to the "Rooms" menu and select both Venus and Mars - no one's forced to choose - log into both and see your people.

The first message is updated with a rough timeline of what will come.

Nodding along, but curious what "Remove and restrict characters based on planetary tags means?"

Everyone needs at least one of m/m, m/f or f/f tags?

So I’m just a little confused “remove and restrict characters based on planetary guidelines”? You’re going to straight up block people from interacting because they don’t fit the boxes you’ve instituted?

Yes and no.
You can, and we encourage, to create fantasy character in fantasy role playing settings.
Whiting these ‚worlds‘ you have to follow the rules of mars and Venus.
I‘m happy if girls, create a male character to enter mars if that is what they like and wish to roleplay for.
These roleplay rules should not be confused with ‚freedom of speech‘.

Can I stay at Mars?

ihihihih You can stay with the guys my Sweet Sweet friend

I mean, I knew It's going to be a HELL of arguments at the comments as I was reading this, but in the terms of roleplaying ...
it can be an awesome change! I mean, have you guys ever seen the movie "Elysium" ?!
(( Shak, just hush and hop in my bag and do not move your little fluffy tail so much ! ))

This is what I don't understand. How will this split improve the experience for the majority of role players over the federations setup? There are already women's only federations, men's only federations, erotic and non-erotic federations, cosplay, anime, etc. etc. It's nice to have one room where everyone can mingle, which already has an option where one can close that room for themselves if they don't want to mingle with everyone else. Is there a need or interest that this configuration isn't already meeting?

I think the line of argument that rooms (case in point, I mostly hang out in #barroom) or federations serve the purpose of finding like-minded folks only goes so far. With the plethora of Feds and rooms to choose from, finding compatible ones can be hit or miss, especially for new players. I won't say this as fact but I suspect finding those rooms or Feds are often by word of mouth with someone you begin DMing with. Finding those people is easier if the field is narrowed. And speaking as someone whose name begins with a "T", being 200th in an alpha list makes it somewhat less likely that I'll be randomly spotted.

I hear what you're saying. Statistically, how widely shared is your anecdotal experience?

This should be interesting

Sounds like this is a done deal.... were people actually asking for this? I'll give it a try, but for those of us who like everyone, feels a bit laborious from what I can understand so far.

Yup, per the Tech's comments a lot of people were asking for this. It really is an overdue change.

What's "a lot of people" quantitatively? And, to be clear, we are talking actual users and not characters, right?

What's the point of this? I get that a lot of people only want to fight men or only want to fight women... but if a woman here goes to Venus, then she will still have men asking her to fight. I guess a man who only wishes to fight other men will be able to avoid this on Mars. If a woman wants to only fight women, she doesn't get that exclusivity on Venus.
I get that this is trying to split demographics, but having an MvM planet, or an MvF planet, without an FvF planet, defeats the purpose in my opinion. Especially when I feel this is likely being done as many women here aren't being left alone.

I don't mind the change. I LIKE it honestly.

The issues are as follows:

1) There needs to be a third planet: one for M/M, one for M/F, and one for F/F
2) It was not explained well that people can be in multiple planets at once, and calling them 'planets' is what probably caused the confusion. They're just rooms like any other, and you can open the menu and join them.
3) Word is a lot of people are getting banned for daring to speak up against this. I know y'all probably weren't expecting the backlash, but that's kind of shitty, isn't it?

I'm not too invested in the changes, but it doesn't seem fair to ban people for expressing concerns and opposition to changes. From where I'm sitting the site isn't the same with certain people gone.

Um The Tech provides this service for free including hosting and development. It belongs to him. If he doesn’t want people to be in his creation thats … up to him obvs 🙄

Phase 2 launched

Re posting a comment that _ appears _ to not have hit the board here ( apologies to all if this has been posted ) : Thanks , ErikAtlas . The concise & in - depth explanation regarding the ' adjustments ' is appreciated my friend. I'm aware , as the entire CF staff & many others are , implementing ' change ' of any type , initially results in certain amount of inquiries. None of us are aware of the tons of private feed back & public observations that resulted in this , nor am I questioning the decisions made. I 100 % support & back up CF ! Thanks again to you all.